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美版知乎:吃牛肉比吃狗肉更道德嗎

三肖中特精准24码免费公开 www.syysp.icu Is eating cow more ethical than eating dog? Why?

吃牛比吃狗更合乎道德嗎?為什么?

 Quora讀者的評論:

Ariel Garlow, Studied in philosophy. Journalist, games enthusiast, vegan.

Originally Answered: Why is it okay to eat cows and chickens but not dogs or rats?

Some argue for illogical reasons: I have heard people say that "horses are majestic, pigs are ugly" which was their reason for not accepting horse meat. If beauty is the only thing keeping this individual from eating a living being, I'd be the first to go!

Many individuals grow up having pet dogs and getting to know their personal behaviours. Not too many people, in my experience, have gotten to really know a pig or a cow, and thus they assume that the reason it is 'acceptable' to eat them in society is because they do not have emotions, that they are inferior creatures. It might shock them to learn that pigs and dogs are very similar when it comes to levels of intelligence and loyalty (in fact, in many studies pigs win out on the scale of intelligence).

Rats are generally seen as vermin - dirty, diseased, and so on. They are not widely consumed by western society because of this different reason. However, rats aren't naturally dirty or vicious creatures. Anyone who has had a pet rat can account for this.

最初的問題是:為什么牛和雞都可以吃,狗和老鼠就不能吃?

有些人的理由完全不合邏輯:我聽人說過什么因為“馬很威武,豬很丑陋”,這就是他們不吃馬肉的原因。

許多人長大的過程中身邊有寵物狗陪伴,對寵物有了深入的了解。而根據我的經驗,沒有多少人真的了解豬或牛,因此普羅大眾認為食用豬牛肉是“可以接受的行為”,因為它們沒有情感,是低等動物。當他們了解到豬和狗在智力和忠誠度方面不相上下時,他們可能會感到震驚(事實上在許多研究中,豬的智力水平更勝一籌)。

老鼠通常被視為害蟲——骯臟、會傳播疾病等等。因此它們沒有被西方社會廣泛消費。不過老鼠并不是天生骯臟或邪惡的動物。任何養過寵物鼠的人都會這么說。

Chickens have been given the reputation of "bird brain", despite the fact that there is readily available information on the complex social conditions and familial relations of chickens:

The meat industry doesn't like it all too much having their customers question whether or not the business is "ethical". I've heard many a businessman say that ethics aren't good for business, and they are right - having people fully informed about the emotional complexities of animals commonly seen as food would ruin the future of the slaughter business.

Additionally, the way to keep 'people on the edge of ethics' in the consumer audience of animal flesh is to convince people that although "yes, it's sad that they die" we "need" meat to survive. There are hundreds upon thousands of meat-free individuals in this world - their existence is becoming more known thanks to international connection and communication (internet). Hopefully, as we continue to create a global community of easily accessible knowledge, there will also be a greater push for a meat-free lifestyle.

雞被稱為“鳥的腦袋”,盡管我們很容易就能獲得關于雞的復雜社會條件和家庭關系的資料:

肉類行業不太喜歡讓他們的客戶質疑這個行業是否“合乎道德”。我聽很多商人說過,道德規范對商業沒有好處,他們是對的——讓人們充分了解動物這種通常被視為食物的動物的情感復雜性,會毀掉屠宰行業的未來。

此外,讓“處于道德邊緣的人”變成動物肉消費者的方法是讓人們相信,盡管“是的,他們的死亡令人難過”,但我們“需要”肉來維持生存。世界上有成千上萬的人不吃肉——由于國際聯系和交流(互聯網),他們的存在正變得越來越為人所知。希望隨著我們繼續創建一個易于獲取知識的全球社區,產生更大的推動力,推廣素食生活方式。

 

Suzy Sims, Real Estate Agent at Berkshire Hathaway (2018-present)

Originally Answered: How can it bother people that dogs are eaten while they are okay with eating other animals?

A while back my husband and I were having hibachi at a Japanese steak house. The other two people at the table were two young, single women. The grill chef was trying to make points with them, visiting and flirting with the women and ignoring us. The young man started in on a story of going to a party in another state at the home of the restaurant owner, and being served a meat he did not recognize. I sat and listened in stunned horror as he shared his story. I excused myself from the table and went to throw up. I did not return to the table, and complained to management. The manager did not understand why it was a problem for me. I have never been back to that restaurant. Since then, I have thought about this. Why is it literally sickening to me that people would willingly eat dogs, but not a problem to eat other animals and fish. I grew up with ranch animals. We raised cattle, sheep, goats, and chickens. We hunt and kill deer on our land. I think the biggest difference is only the horses ever connected the same way a dog does. The dogs and horses have an intuitiveness that comes from centuries of co dependency with humans. Because they have been bred to work with humans in daily activities, these animals have heightened body language and facial expression understanding. They will seek out human attention, where most other farm animals won’t unless they are looking to be fed. There are always exceptions, but for the most part the cows are not coming to you for affection. The dogs, cats, horses will come to you for company. Most dogs actually prefer to be with their humans than other dogs. So eating dogs, cats, or horses to me is almost cannibalism.

譯文來源:三泰虎  //www.syysp.icu/47681.html  譯者:Joyceliu

最初的問題是:當人們可以選擇吃其他動物時,卻非得吃狗,這會給人們帶來什么麻煩?

不久前,我和丈夫在一家日本牛排館吃日式燒烤。旁邊是兩個年輕的單身女人。燒烤店的廚師想撩那兩個女人,跟她們調情,沒搭理我們。這個年輕廚師說起了一個故事,說他去參加餐館老板家在另一個州的聚會,有人給他端來一塊他不認識的肉。我坐在那里,聽著他的故事,嚇得目瞪口呆。我離開座位,惡心嘔吐起來。我沒有回餐桌,直接向管理層投訴了。經理不明白為什么這對我來說會是個問題。我再也沒去過那家餐館。從那時起,我就開始思考這個問題。為什么人們寧愿吃狗,也不愿意吃其他動物和魚,這讓我感到惡心。我和牧場里的動物一起長大。我們養了牛、羊、山羊和雞。我們也會在自己的土地上獵殺鹿。我認為最大的不同之處在于,只有馬和狗跟人類的情感連接方式是一樣的。狗和馬的直覺來自于幾個世紀以來與人類的相互依賴。因為它們被馴養成了在日?;疃杏肴死嘞嗷ヅ浜系畝?,這些動物對人類身體語言和面部表情的理解能力提高了。它們會尋求人類的關注,而其他大多數農場動物則不會,除非它們在尋找食物。當然也有例外,但在大多數情況下,奶牛不會找你親熱。而狗、貓、馬都會來找你作伴。事實上,大多數狗狗更喜歡和人類在一起。所以對我來說,吃狗、貓或者馬幾乎就是同類相食。

 

Nina Walker, Just throwing in my two cents worth...

Originally Answered: How can westerners be so sensitive to dogs and cats, and insensitive towards cows and pigs?

Yes, we do feel differently about our pets than we do the animals we eat, but it's because we have to eat them that we don't allow ourselves to get attached to them. 

Not all of us are vegetarians and I am tired of apologizing for being an omnivore, like most people are all over the world. This is our nature, this is what we eat, fruits vegetables and meat, all kinds of meat. Our teeth were designed for it, our bodies need the protein and other nutrients. 

Some of us make a conscious choice to not eat as much or any meat. Good for you, but your morality is not my morality, nor do you have the right to judge me or anyone for their choice in eating habits or for following the very nature they were born with.

Now, just so you know, I, too, feel there is a huge disconnect and most people don't "appreciate" the sacrifice an animal is forced to make to feed us. Because of that disconnect, we raised turkeys this year for both of our families to enjoy at Thanksgiving. Organic, farm raised and we provided the best life for them we could for our birds. The day they are to be slaughtered is approaching, and yes, it is hard! 

原來的問題是:西方人怎么會在對貓狗如此敏感的同時,對豬牛如此麻木不仁呢?

是的,我們對寵物的感覺確實與對我們食用的動物不一樣,但這是因為我們不得不吃它們,所以我們不允許自己對它們產生情感。

并非所有的人都是素食主義者,我厭倦了像世界上大多數人一樣,為自己是雜食主義者而道歉。這是我們的天性,我們天生就要吃水果,蔬菜和肉,各種各樣的肉。我們的牙齒就是為此而設計的,我們的身體需要蛋白質和其他營養。

我們中的一些人有意識地選擇不吃那么多種或某種肉類。你們的道德出發點本是好的,但你們的道德不是我的道德,你們也沒有權利以我或任何人的飲食習慣,或他們與生俱來的本性來評判我們。

現在,就像你知道的,我也覺得有一個巨大的脫節,大多數人不“欣賞”動物為了養活我們而被迫作出的犧牲。由于這種脫節,我們今年養了火雞,讓我們兩家人都能在感恩節享用。天然有機,農場飼養,我們為他們提供了最好的生活。他們被屠殺的日子即將來臨,是的,這并非易事!

It is hard to look them in the eye. They are trusting and friendly birds. I have not treated them as pets, yet, I still have all the warm fuzzy feelings that I do for my cats and our chickens (whom we promised we would not eat).   I like them in spite of what I know is coming, and I really don't want to do this but we can not keep them. Our 5 turkeys are scheduled to feed 75-100 people.

If I didn't kill them, we would still have turkey for Thanksgiving, and I will have 5 huge birds that I can not continue to feed. "Big bird" is approaching 50 lbs and I had no idea they could get that big.

Evidently, normal turkeys and chickens are slaughtered when they are much younger and smaller than our birds. I have heard that slaughtering occurs as young as 10 weeks, ours are 6 months old, having reached maturity or egg laying age at 4-1/2 months.

So I am more or less moral because I gave them a longer life outside of a factory farm where they could enjoy the life they have for as long as I can let them? Am I more or less moral because I acknowledge that I have trouble looking at them knowing what I know? 

我無法直視他們的眼睛。它們是信任和友好的鳥類。我并沒有把它們當作寵物,但是,我仍然對我的貓和雞(我們答應過不吃它們)懷有所有溫暖而模糊的感情。我喜歡他們,盡管我知道宰殺的日子即將到來,我真的不想這樣做,但我們不能留住他們。我們需要用5只火雞招待75-100人。

如果我不殺了它們,我們的感恩節一樣會有火雞,我將會有5只大鳥,我無法繼續喂養它們。“大鳥”快50磅了,我不知道它們能長到這么龐大。

顯然,正常的火雞和雞在比我們的鳥小得多的時候就被宰殺了。據我所知,屠宰年齡最小為10周,我們的屠宰年齡為6個月,已到了成熟期或4-1/2個月的產卵年齡。

我讓他們在工廠化農場之外活了更長時間,在那里他們享受著生活?我或多或少還是有道德的吧,因為我承認我很難面對他們?

 

Michael Shaw, I eat

Originally Answered: Why do Westerners care so much about people eating dogs but don't care about people eating any other animals?

Because human beings are not perfectly rational.

As a species, we're prone to having subjective experiences and emotions inform our opinions, along with hard information and objective reason.

Mainstream Western cultures are far removed the process of food production. Most of us have never had to kill something in order to eat it, nor have most of us ever witnessed an animal slaughter in person (meaning, Youtube videos don't count.) So, we don't really need to think about exactly where our meat came from; we just grab it from the refrigerated shelves at the supermarket, and then carry on down to the dairy section.

As a result, we have a rather narrow view of which animals are food, and which aren't. If it's a farmed animal, then it must be for eating. If it's not a farmed animal, then it must not be for eating. Hunted animals, like deer, are an exception.

Dogs are very firmly in the "friend" category. People view their pet dogs as members of the family, and most people can't imagine eating them for that reason. Cats are viewed much the same way.

最初的問題是:為什么西方人如此在意人們吃狗這件事,而不關心人們食用其他動物?

因為人類并不是完全理性的。

作為一個物種,我們更容易通過主觀經驗和情感來表達我們的觀點。

西方主流文化對食品生產的過程有很大的排斥。我們大多數人從來沒有為了吃東西而殺過什么東西,也沒有親眼目睹過動物被屠殺(Youtube上的視頻不算)。所以,我們真的不需要思考我們吃的肉是從哪里來的;我們只需從超市的冷凍貨架上把肉拿下來,然后繼續走到乳制品區。

因此,我們對哪些動物是食物,哪些不是食物,有著相當狹隘的看法。如果它是養殖的動物,那么它一定是用來吃的。如果它不是被養殖的動物,那么它肯定是不能吃的。像鹿這樣被獵殺的動物是個例外。

我們非常堅定地認為,狗屬于“人類的朋友”。人們把他們的寵物狗視為家庭成員,大多數人無法想象它們會被人食用。人們對貓的觀念也大同小異。

I find it interesting that rabbits are in both the "friend" and "food" categories. They're a common pet, yet also known as a food item. Certainly not one of the most common proteins available, but many people have eaten rabbit and there is no stigma against it.

So, this all just shows that humanity's ideas about the value of life are extremely subjective. Different cultures/societies develop different values regarding the role of animals, which are okay to eat, etc. Some people become vegetarians, who don't eat meat, but would still be fine with squishing a spider. Some people will call themselves vegetarians, but still eat chicken or fish, as if they're not animals. Some people will be vegan, and try their best to never be complicit in the harm of an animal, whereas some people will eat anything as long as it's actually edible. We can't really say that one set of values is objectively more correct than another.

我發現有趣的是,兔子既屬于“朋友”類別,也屬于“食物”類別。它們是一種常見的寵物,也被稱為食物。當然不是最常見的蛋白質之一,但許多人吃過兔子,并不以此為恥辱。

所以,這一切都表明人類對于生命價值的觀念是極其主觀的。不同的文化/社會對動物的角色有著不同的價值觀感,可以食用的動物種類各不相同,等等。有些人成為素食主義者,他們不吃肉,但也會踩死蜘蛛。有些人自稱素食主義者,但仍然吃雞肉或魚,好像這些就不算動物。有些人成為素食主義者,盡他們最大的努力不參與動物的殺生,也有些人什么能吃就吃什么。我們沒法說哪種價值觀在客觀上就一定比另一種更正確。

 

Yveline Burton, Long time dog lover, and self taught force-free training enthusiast.

Originally Answered: How can westerners be so sensitive to dogs and cats, and insensitive towards cows and pigs?

Its partly culture, and partly holding different attitudes towards different animals.

Culture is purely what you are told is food by all around you as you grow up. Having French roots I have no issue with trying meats on the continent (like horse, or rabbit) that many of my friends in the UK would feel disgusted by. I get it, though. Its difficult to say to yourself 'I wouldn't think like this if I had been born in country X instead of country Y' because those irrational beliefs and traditions are so deeply ingrained. To someone whose only ever seen cute little bunnies as something to love, it seems abhorrent to eat one, just like to those who've only ever seen insects as something dirty, it seems disgusting to even think of cooking them!

Attitudes are different in my eyes -the aren't quite so ingrained and it only takes experience to break them.

I know many people who are quite happy to buy battery farm eggs/meat because 'They're only chickens'. They see farm animals as dumb. As subordinate to the animals whose intelligence and personality we see on a daily basis. I've been actively laughed at for choosing only to eat our own eggs or buy free range and for asking others to do the same. "Its just a scam to get you to pay more, so that a dumb animal can wander around a bigger space - its not like they even notice". All it takes to change that view of the world is to meet a few.

原來的問題是:西方人怎么會在對貓狗如此敏感的同時,對豬牛如此麻木不仁呢?

一方面是文化,另一方面是對不同動物持有的不同態度。

在你成長的過程中,你周圍的人會告訴你,文化就是食物。我有法國血統,在歐洲大陸品嘗肉類(比如馬肉或兔肉)我沒有意見,而我在英國的許多朋友可能會對此感到反感。我理解。很難對自己說“如果我出生在X國而不是Y國,我就不會這么想了”,因為這些非理性的信念和傳統根深蒂固。對于一個只把可愛的小兔子當作寵愛對象的人來說,吃兔子的行為絕不能忍,就像那些把昆蟲視為骯臟的東西的人,一想到烹飪昆蟲就覺得犯惡心!

在我看來,這種態度是不同的——并沒有那么根深蒂固,但需要經驗來打破。

我知道很多人很樂意買農場的雞蛋/肉,因為“這些雞只是雞”。他們認為農場動物是啞巴。我一直被人嘲笑,因為我選擇只吃自己家產的雞蛋或者購買自由放養的雞產的蛋,我還要求別人也這么做。“這純屬騙人的,就是要讓你多掏錢”。

My chickens are not 'dumb', they aren't so smart, but if you treat them right they will be just as loving and full of character as any domestic pet. When people see them hop onto my lap, and close their eyes in a visible sign of comfort as I stroke them, when they see them tap at the living room window to be thrown scraps from my sandwich, then they often go home a little sickened by the thought of those same loving creatures spending their life in a tiny cage, pecked clean of feathers and covered in faeces.

Its just the same with other farm animals - pigs are 'dirty', cows and sheep are 'stupid'. The people who say this have often never really met one of these animal for any prolonged period of time, never trained one to do something amazing, never seen one care for its young or play with other animals. They just don't realise that the only difference between their beloved hamster, rabbit, cat or dog, and the animals whose meat they so readily buy cheap at the supermarket with no thought for welfare standards, is that the ones they eat aren't practical house-pets, so they don't see how great they are.

Being a butcher's granddaughter, I have no qualms about any eating meat, as long as I wouldn't be ashamed by what I saw if I visited the farm where it had lived, nor shocked by the manner in which it died. Good clean life and a quick clean death.

我養的雞不笨,也不聰明,但如果你對它們好,它們就會像任何家養寵物一樣充滿愛心和個性。當人們看到他們跳上我的腿上,閉上眼睛享受我的輕撫時,當他們看到他們輕啄客廳窗戶,討要三明治屑時,就不會這樣想了。

跟其他農場動物一樣——豬很“臟”,牛和羊很“蠢”。說這句話的人,在很長一段時間里,從來沒有真正見過這些動物中的任何一種,從來沒有訓練過它們去做一些驚人的事情,從來沒有見過它們如何照顧自己的孩子,也沒有見過它們如何和其他動物玩耍。

作為一個屠夫的孫女,我對吃肉一點也不感到不安,也不為它的死亡方式感到震驚。好好活痛快死。

 

Keely Meakin, B.S. Zoology & Minor in Anthropology

short answer: NO. A lot of the responses here are saying ‘as long as the animal had a good life prior to the slaughtering, it it ethical.’ But why? Say you are taking care of your pet dog or cow and then while walking down the street someone just kills your dog/cow. Wow, so ethical right? Both cow and dog had a desire for life and were murdered against their will. Especially today where (in most developed countries at least) meat is NOT a necessity. There are hundreds of alternatives that give you better sources of nutrients and protein that the murdering of any creature for food is immoral. If it is the only option (i.e. someone that is very poor and has no other food source) then I can slightly understand but killing to kill when there are other humane alternatives is wrong. Cows want to live just as much as a dog wants to. It comes down to culture at this point. Just because it is okay (by societies’ standards) in one culture doesn’t make it okay overall. Marital rape, for example, is not punished in some cultures but does it mean it is okay overall? NO. There is nothing ethical about killing any being that doesn’t want to die in the first place. Look up the video ‘Dominion’, ‘Forks over knives’, and ‘cowspiracy.’ They all touch on the many cruel aspects of the slaughter of cows, chickens, and pigs etc. This isn’t even considering the environmental damages the animal agriculture industry is doing; species are going extinct, forests are being completely demolished, the waterways are being overfished, and many more. Veganism is the solution.

簡短的回答是:不是。很多人都回答“只要動物在被屠宰前生活得很好,就符合道義。”但是為什么?比如說你關心照顧你的寵物狗或奶牛,然后當你走在街上的時候,有人殺了你的狗或奶牛。哇,道德嗎?牛和狗都有對生命的渴望,都是違背它們自己的意愿而被謀殺的。特別是在今天(至少在大多數發達國家),肉不是必需品。有數百種選擇可以給你提供更好的營養和蛋白質來源,任何為了食物而殺害動物的行為都是不道德的。如果這是唯一的選擇(例如,一個非常貧窮的人,沒有其他食物來源),那么我可以稍微理解,但如果明明有其他人道選擇,還是要宰殺動物,那么就是錯誤的行徑。奶牛和狗一樣想要生活。在這一點上可以歸結為文化。例如,婚內強奸在某些文化中不受懲罰,但這是否意味著這種事可以大眾接受?不。更不用說畜牧業給環境帶來的破壞;物種正在滅絕,森林被完全摧毀,水域被過度捕撈等等。素食主義正是解決辦法。

 

Kandyce Perez

Originally Answered: Why is it okay to eat cows and chickens but not dogs or rats?

Having grown up around pigs and dogs, and consuming the pigs I've raised, but not the dogs, I have thought about this question. My answer is that I would not be disposed to eat an animal who eats mainly meat. I just don't think they would be very tasty. ( I wouldn't be disposed to eat wild boar for instance, because pigs really will eat anything and I think it would be super gamey). I would totally eat horse though, I hear it is delicious and very mild, and I believe that, based on the very specific diet of horses.

I believe that people often give animals anthropomorphic qualities, such as love and compassion, and that stops them from consuming certain animals. Rather, I ascribe different uses to animals. For me dogs are companion animals, some bunnies are pets, others are delicious. I would totally have a pet pig, as they are entertaining and delightful animals, but I'm still going to eat bacon.

I think horses in American economy are way too expensive to eat. I fully realize that this way of thinking leads me to be viewed as a horrible and heartless person, but my very close connection with every part of many animals lives has led me to view humans and animals differently. I appreciate and adore animals. I love the pack qualities of dogs and horses that are often used to develop close bonds between those animals and their human caretakers. I also know what animals do and how they behave when left to their own devices (wild boar are terrifying, for instance, and a domesticated pig turns into a wild boar within three months of being in the wild). People love cats, but colonies of feral cats are no joke, and they would totally kill you if they were the size of their larger cousins. I personally love foxes, but they are also vicious carnivores, they're just really cute ones.

So in rambling conclusion, I believe that people choose to eat one animal above another because they have ascribed certain qualities on those animals. I personally make my choices based on what I know of an animals diet, because diet changes the taste of meat.

最初的問題是:為什么牛和雞都可以吃,狗和老鼠就不能吃?

我成長的過程中一直有豬和狗陪伴在旁,我會吃我養的豬,但不會吃狗,我思考過這個問題。我的回答是,我不喜歡吃肉食性動物。我只是覺得它們嘗起來味道不佳。(例如,我不喜歡吃野豬,因為豬幾乎什么都吃)。我可以接受吃馬肉,我聽說馬肉很好吃,我相信這是馬的特定飲食習慣造成的。

我相信人們經常賦予動物擬人化的特質,比如愛和同情,讓他們不會消費某些動物。但正相反,我認為動物有不同的用途。對我來說,狗是陪伴型動物,有些兔子是寵物,有些是美味食物。我很想養寵物豬,因為它們很有趣,但我一樣會吃培根。

我與許多動物生活的密切聯系使我對人和動物有了不同的看法。我欣賞并崇拜動物。我喜歡狗和馬的群體特質。我也知道如果讓動物們為所欲為,它們會怎么做(比如野豬很可怕,一頭家養的豬在野外呆上三個月內就會變成野豬)。人們喜歡貓,但是野貓的聚居地可不是鬧著玩的。我個人喜歡狐貍,但它們也是食肉動物,它們真的很可愛。

所以,我認為人們吃某種動物,不吃某種動物,是因為他們認為這些動物具有某些特性。我個人會基于我對動物飲食的了解來做選擇,因為動物的飲食會改變肉的味道。

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